Just some thoughts and ideas going around in my head while trying to figure out where I am and where everyone else is going.

Sunday, November 16, 2008

Say no to H8

Two, four, six, eight, how do you know your kids are straight; black white, gay straight, blah blah something blah blah hate, and something else about equal rights were 3 of the slogans that heard shouted repeatedly at yesterday’s protest against California’s Proposition 8 outside of Philadelphia’s City Hall. One catchphrase would shout out in one section of the plaza until it died down and then someone would shout something else in another. But they weren’t the only things that were being shouted.

Take for example the man above. As small as he was he proudly let everyone know that he did not believe in homosexuality and same sex marriages, and that as a Christian he would follow the laws and principles of the Lord and the rest of us would rot in Hell. Meanwhile under his stunning pink blazer he wore a lovely gray and pink checkered dress and from the way he spoke and acted he was clearly as queer as a $3 bill. Obviously he was also crazy and yet truth be told, and I may lose half of the 5 regular readers to this blog but c’est la vie, I sort of was on his side. I’m not saying that gay people will face hell fire and damnation in the afterlife; hell some of us are facing that now. What I am saying is that I am not sure that being able to marry anyone you choose with the blessing of the state may not be the answer.

For those of you who are unaware, from what I understand, California’s Prop 8 is a statute that would recognize marriage as state sanctioned relationship that can only be done between a man and a woman. Every other kind of relationship, i.e. gay, would be seen as illegitimate and possibly not eligible to all of the rights of a straight married couple. Here is where I am going to veer off course.

When I was growing up, the only legitimate marriage a couple could have would be the one done in sanctity of the church. Because marriage was a holy sacrament and therefore only a member of the church could perform the ceremony and provide the blessings that would come with such a service. As I grew older I found out that people really weren’t married until the State told them that they were married and that for $10 slapped down on a dirty counter at city hall or the local registrar’s office anybody could get a license if they were a man and woman and not related to one another except in certain States and maybe of the same race they too could be married for life, just not in the sight of God.

This really isn’t that radical but maybe it’s time for the State not to try and equalize all marriages but instead get out of the marriage business all together. Maybe it’s time to truly separate the Church from the State and maybe instead issue Civil Union Partnership Certificates to everyone, “black white, gay straight” and everything in between like they do in some European countries. A certificate or bond that would be no different from anybody else’s and entitle the recipients to the same rights and benefits as everyone else.

Once that is done if the couple wants to head down to their church, the local synagogue, mosque or temple for the marriage ceremony and the blessings of their faith then that would be something to be dealt with by the couple and their religious institution and thus have nothing to do with the law. After all the government is not involved in baptisms or burials, so why are they in marriages?

Unfortunately or fortunately depending on how you look at it, I don’t have anybody so maybe my thoughts don’t count. But then again, according to the majority of states in this country, the thoughts of people who attended the rally don’t count either so why not try something else?


  1. are we regressing as a people? is liberty being upsurped by socioalism and facism? dang

  2. I've been gone for a while and your spot is the first one I've caught up on and what a way to catch up! I agree wholeheartedly with this post.

    I think that human love is human love. Religion and beliefs aside I have a very hard time understanding the disdain shown towards homosexual couples. As a straight woman I am trying to figure out how who a gay man or woman wants to spend their life with effects me? It doesn't change one iota about my life so whats the danggone fuss.

    I think civil unions are the way to go for everyone. I always fall back on the story I once heard where a lesbian couple had spent 30 years together and when one got sick and died her family (who disowned her prior) swooped in and took everything from under her partner and it was completely legal.

    If you ask me that is the biggest reason to quit this stupidity. Even Jesus said you treat people with Love and respect even when you disagree. The people who are so up in arms are using God as a weapon rather than living in his truth.

    Right is right and human rights are not something that we can pick and choose. Either we give them to everyone or no one has them.

  3. I must say that I am not gay,but I have lots of friends that are...and they seem so happy with their sexuality. I wont disturb what they believe in. I dont have a right to vote to choose what they believe in. It is them that knows what they want. I love them for who they are.

    The only thing that I dont like is a man that dates a man..that looks like a woman and has changed her parts to a woman....why not date the woman???

    Stay sweet, coming here again just to see your pic....LOLOLOLOLO(^_^)

  4. I see where you are going with this... and yes it makes sense. So long as everyone has the same rights as everyone else I am with you.

    That's the part that bugs me. I will say it here as I said it on another blog - So long as there are different descriptions and definitions, there will be infringment on your rights and discrimination. There already is. Insurance companies can choose to include married spouses but disclude domestic partnerships, civil unions and common-law spouses - how? - because they have different definitions. Same with rights for dying partners and your right to make decisions for them.

    Every man/woman should be afforded the right to be able to marry/unionize with the man or woman of their choosing.

    Until there is liberty and justice for ALL, we just can't let it go.

  5. Torrance - I don't know about socialism because if it were then I wouldn't have to worry about my health insurance premiums going up next year for less benefit while millions do without. But as far as fascism goes, look around. This country has been going fascist since 911 with the Patriot Act and FISA being supported by Obama and the Democrats and maybe the introduction of a national identity card. Soon people may not even be able to take a shit without having government approval first.

    Ingrid - Thank you. I think you understand what I was trying to say. As long as a religion or religions separate us, then religion needs to be taken out of the government, and since marriage is a religious institution, that needs to go to.

    Better to have one government system for all where rights are not discriminated against one people or another. And let those seeking religious confirmation of their vows head to their churches.

    Kin'shar - Okay, it took me a while to figure out what you must be saying and you bring up an interesting aspect of being human. What is it that drives one person to desire something or someone that others find unattractive? Personally I don't know but I try to accept it for what it is, just part of the human condition.

    Runningmom - I know what you mean. A company I used to work for would pay the extra health insurance premium for an employee's domestic partner, but then we would turn around and report the payment to the state as added income for the employee. So he or she would end up paying more in taxes than a straight and "married" couple with the same income.

    Fundamentally what needs to be done is just to follow the Constitution, everyone should be afforded "equal protection under the law." Once that is done then I'm sure no one would really care what their union is called because whatever it is, it would be real to them and not looked down upon as inferior by others.

  6. I absolutely agree with your assessment and conclusion. The gov't should get out of the marriage business and then all of this will be solved. The question with regards to the states/federal gov't is not marriage per say, but the social/economic benifits that are affored couples whom are recognized by law as being "married". Marriage is a construct of the church and should be dealt with there. This battle is not about 'love', it's about 'rights & benifits'.


  7. Damnit - Sing it to me. A fellow traveller. It should be all about equal rights and equal benefits under the law and leave the church to those who want to deal with the church.

  8. Oh wait, now you want me to sing? Man you ask too much! LoL.


  9. Saying no to Proposition 8; I feel where you are coming from and I understand completely where you are coming from and as you have stated we all have our own opinion (no I did not quote you verbatim), but you know what I am saying and I too agree that people that form a relationship be it man and woman, man and man or woman and woman if they feel the need to declare their love for eac other and intend to spend the rest of their lives together then a Civil Union shall be formed and regonized by all means, but it is more complicated than that Church and State has to fit in there, and there will be no separartion as far as I can tell not for same sex couples, but times are changing.

    Oh yeah I may have heard that sermon he was preaching just this afternoon prior to a meeting on campus, in fact he made sure that I heard him say " homosexuality is a sin and those that tolerate it will be sent to hell if they don't change their evil ways, no tolerance." Then the closer I got to him the louder he became and the subject was Homosexualiity all while watching my crotch, I don't get these people.

  10. Chet - Oh yeah. I know the idea of taking the church out of government will never fly in the US. There are too many people here who will state that they believe in the separation of the two but will rely on the government to confirm their own religous beliefs. Look at the amount of elected officials who are not Christians. A handful at the most. But it works in France and the Netherlands and some other countries, so why not try it here and instead have people fight for equality and other things instead?

  11. I have some ver strong opinions on this issue. Well, not that strong, but I do have an opinion. I am probably going to do a post on it so I'm not going to share, so there.

  12. I have some ver strong opinions on this issue. Well, not that strong, but I do have an opinion. I am probably going to do a post on it so I'm not going to share, so there.

  13. One Man - Your opinion is always welcome here, but I wonder why you couldn't express more of it. Are you starting to take advertising on your site so that you couldn't put it here as well as there? With as many hits as you get, I would think that you could afford to send a little business my way.


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